Talk:Y-chromosomal Aaron

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Gypsy Priester

Mitochondrial DNA Diversity in the Polish RomaInterestingly, haplogroup K (with HVS I motif 16224-16234-16311) found in the Polish Roma sample seems to be specific for Ashkenazi Jewish populations.

A newly discovered founder population: the Roma/Gypsies Luba Kalaydjieva,1* Bharti Morar,1 Raphaelle Chaix,2 and Hua Tang3

Within the H-M82 haplogroup, an identical 8-microsatellite Y chromosome haplotype is shared by nearly 30% of Gypsy men, an astonishing degree of preservation of a highly differentiated lineage, previously described only in Jewish priests. (30) 2A02:8108:5082:AE00:AD32:A906:A1D0:9650 (talk) 00:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recent lead fixes

Came across this article whose WP:LEAD appeared to quite enthusiastically support a Biblical literalist view of Aaronic priesthood (Kohens, Levites etc.) i.e. of a single origin and ergo the historicity of Aaron; this was based mostly on WP:PRIMARY sources. Looking into the article's history, these lead changes were introduced with this edit, which also removed quite a lot of secondary sources and content (including refs [Relethford, Weitzmann] which postdate some of the primary studies inserted in the edit and even directly reference them). Further it appears to be a misrepresentation of sources as while the primary sources/studies cited say that a significant number of Kohens do indeed have shared origins, they clearly add that not all of them do; which is exactly what the lead previously stated through the secondary references in a much more nuanced/balanced way.

I reverted these edits based on WP:PRIMARY, WP:SYNTH (for First Temple Aaron historicity which had been dubiously added as well) and other POV concerns (being wary of editors citing primary genetics research).

These edits were again recently restored by an IP without any rationale here.

@Doug Weller, SMcCandlish, Mark viking, Eastmain, and TarnishedPath: Further pinging recent contributors from the Talk page of the WP:GENETICS and Doug Weller as a past contributor. Inputs are much appreciated. Thanks. Gotitbro (talk) 23:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gotitbro I've only got my phone to review things at the moment and have very little time to access a PC as I'm away from home. I will try and have a look before I head home after new years, but no promises. In the meantime I'd suggest requesting temporary semi-protection at WP:RPP/I (if IPs are edit warring to restore a non-policy compliant version) and raising a discussion at WP:NOR/N.TarnishedPath^talk 23:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added it to my watchlist. Doug Weller talk 09:30, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is an article about the DNA genetic studies of Y-chromosomal Aaron, including the Z18271 haplogroup mentioned in the introduction of this article for nearly a decade. If there are new genetic studies then incorporate them into this article but do not remove established content relevant to the subject. All religious and historicity content related to biblical Aaron and descendants are covered elsewhere in perhaps 20 other articles that are not DNA related.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.154.123.87 (talk) 05:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yet that is exactly what you imply by restoring previously problematic edits stating "descent from a common ancestor". The primary papers cited simply do not support this. Yes, common descent among a certain proportion of the population is stated but it nowhere near tells the whole story, that of multiple lineages.

That this model has been incorrectly used to imply Aaronic historicity makes relevant its very refutation by these studies themselves. Our lead had stated as much before these recent insertions and reverts, what you have restored is simply a misrepresentation of these primary sources (along with a massive removal of secondary literature on them).

And per WP:BRD you should have waited to gain WP:CONSENSUS here before making repeated reverts (a la WP:EDITWARRING) to restore what is clearly contentious especially when multiple editors are already in the midst of discussion. I will let them further weigh in. Gotitbro (talk) 07:31, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]