Talk:Papa John's

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On 23 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Papa Johns. The result of the discussion was not moved.

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List of pizza varieties by country — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.16.249 (talk) 05:53, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

3rd largest Pizza chain?

Both this article and Little Cesars say that they are the 3rd largest pizza chain in the US. Something isn't right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8805:4200:8e20:e860:9ba7:1a66:ef0a (talk) 20:51, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article's assertion is unsourced; the little caesars one has a source, which supports their claim - looks like pizza hut is number four. Much as it pains me to give a damn, I'll make the change... Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 20:56, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

2018 numbers has them at #4th. Here's an MSN "FoodNews" article. https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/foodnews/the-top-10-pizza-chains-in-america/ar-BBKhlbg. P37307 (talk) 23:44, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: move to Papa John's. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist🇺🇦 (talk) 08:11, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Papa John's Pizza → Papa Johns – New common name Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:53, 27 January 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 17:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The new corporate branding does not have the apostrophe and the accepted common name has long been Papa Johns (previously Papa John's) anyway--Lahti213 (talk) 15:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

~~Skeptical~~ (replaced with "Oppose" below): The lack of an apostrophe may match the latest corporate marketing initiative, but where is the evidence that this is the WP:common name used by independent reliable sources? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:25, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point. Taking a step back, as it’s commonly used (which is mostly be in conversation) I don’t think people distinguish much between no apostrophe and apostrophe. They use and hear the pronunciation. Given that, should we at least get the spelling (or punctuation?) right here? Also I noticed it was widely covered back in November (you can source many outlets online if you want). I thought it was quirky because I never realized there was an apostrophe before Lahti213 (talk) 03:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per MOS:TM, if a company does something unusual that does not fit the ordinary way of writing things in English, we follow ordinary English unless the other styling is consistently followed in independent reliable sources. If the usage is mixed, we follow ordinary English. In this case the inclusion of an apostrophe is a very common form for the name of a restaurant or other establishment established by a particular (fictional or real) person. If a woman named Alice creates a restaurant, it would conventionally be called "Alice's Restaurant", not "Alices Restaurant" (which is a red link, because that's not what people would write as the name of the restaurant). The only way it might end up being called "Alices Restaurant" might be if it was some sort of grammatical trick to indicate that the restaurant involved more than one Alice. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 10:14, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per MOS:TM: The Google Ngram viewer shows that the apostrophe is usually included. As outlined above, that is the form that most closely resembles ordinary English formatting for a pizza shop founded by someone named Papa John. This is a posessive expression, not a plural. Moreover, their own website's title bar shows up as "Papa John's Pizza Delivery & Carryout – Best Deals on Pizza, Sides & More" and there are many other instances of "Papa John's Pizza" right on the front page of the company's own website, and the name of the company, "Papa John's International, Inc.", includes the apostrophe. In fact it looks like the company always includes the apostrophe when it refers to itself, except in its logo. I see "Papa John's Gift Cards" and "Join the Papa John's Team" and a footer that lists "Papa John's Pizza Stores in The United States", and "Papa John's Pizza Stores in Canada". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 11:09, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Got it, good points. Briefly, it’s not John’s restaurant, and since November reliable sources use no apostrophe (vs. the website/corporate gift cards/picture…but if those are also seen as relevant then it’s more because the company is still working through the change…the prominent pics have no apostrophe). Important we get this right!--Lahti213 (talk) 12:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It may not actually be John's restaurant anymore, but that is the way such establishments are typically referred to in English even when the original operators are no longer associated with the business. Indeed, an auto shop called "Mike's Auto Repair" may never have been owned by someone named Mike, but that is OK. The idea that the company is just too incompetent to remove apostrophes and the word "Pizza" from its own main website page is sad. Unless we determine that the less natural name is being used consistently in independent reliable sources (not just some sources, but the vast majority of them), we should leave this the way it is. An announcement of a rebranding campaign is not enough. Wikipedia is not an extension of corporate marketing, and in this case even the corporation is still using the current name and punctuation. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:14, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support The name change was only a couple months ago and it will take a while for RS to catch up, but much like, say, Bojangles (restaurant) or Tim Hortons, the current apostrophe-less version is correct. 162 etc. (talk) 16:14, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia follows the sources, we don't lead. If the company's own website hasn't "caught up", then it's too soon to move the article. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:32, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. Their own website still has references to "Papa John's Pizza" and "Papa John's International". Rreagan007 (talk) 04:44, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Corporate website lists everything with an apostrophe, website browser title (what appears as the name in the tab) also retains the apostrophe.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 00:19, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Papa John's. Keep the apostrophe, but this is its clear common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:54, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Papa John's.--Ortizesp (talk) 00:51, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Papa John's per others. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:14, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Papa John's with the apostrophe. The company's own marketing still uses both, and everyone else spells it with the apostrophe. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 23:26, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Just to nitpick, this is definitely an exaggeration. For example, searching "Papa Johns" on Google News finds 6 pages of results (i.e. ~60 articles) from the last week (here's the first story that comes up, as an example). But the spelling with the apostrophe is more common in RS, and has WP:TITLETM on its side. Colin M (talk) 19:22, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Headquarters is listed wrong

One part of this article says Papa John's HQ is (a) near Atlanta; another part says it's (b) near Louisville; another part says it's (c) both. What's true? a? b? c? Or is it (d) something else? It would be nice for the article to be correct and to agree with itself. TooManyFingers (talk) 21:35, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This source [1] cited in the article states that Papa Johns has headquarters in both Atlanta and Louisville. 162 etc. (talk) 05:23, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, other sources say something different, or the conflicting information wouldn't be here. That's the point. TooManyFingers (talk) 06:26, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've updated the article to clarify the two HQ situation. 162 etc. (talk) 15:21, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 17:03, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Papa John's → Papa Johns – Papa Johns updated their brand name to exclude the apostrophe, citing https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/marketing/papa-johns-ditches-apostrophe. This change should be implemented to follow the new brand name as of last year. Andrewwintl (talk) 20:11, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose. This is just repeating the proposal of six months ago (closed 1 March 2022), and the provided rationale has absolutely no relationship to Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Wikipedia is under no obligation to follow the lead of corporate advertising campaigns. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:35, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per previous RM. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:52, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 23 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) RodRabelo7 (talk) 03:13, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Papa John's → Papa Johns – Has been the trade name of the company for a number of years now. I am aware of the previous requested moves of this nature, but I believe it should now be changed. Google Trends shows that "Papa Johns" has a far higher interest over time for the past year than "Papa John's". Strugglehouse (talk) 12:18, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Ngram shows continued usage primarily with the apostrophe. We shouldn't keep needing to have this discussion over and over. The Ngram viewer seems to use higher quality sourcing than Google Trends. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:06, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@BarrelProof Ngram shows use in printed sources, Google Trends shows online sources/popularity of Google searches. I'd say online sources should take priority. Strugglehouse (talk) 09:51, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Slight oppose, per BarrelProof, although the Google trends make a viable case. n-grams now go to 2022? When did that happen, they were good through 2019 last time I paid much attention to the years. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per previous RMs. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:00, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.